Short response to Marty Rathbun and Mark Rinder or are you both (Rathbun and Rinder) calling David Mayo a liar?- written by Catherine Ethier (Re: OT VIII and above)

Good morning Gentleman,

I am not going to engage myself with personal insults and profanities as you do. Your own past deeds speak for themselves. I also mean no disrespect! What I want to address is your offensive language showing poor taste and the personal attacks in the exert below. We also wish NO part of your rude exchanges!

I also want to make a side mention about the quality of the influencing crowd spreading rumors  and “opinions”  about Pierre on your blogs – one is a “FreeZoner” who Mark Rathbun is often praising on his blog as a close friend and who funnels money to him. The very same individual has made a considerable attempt to take the roof over the head of my disabled teenage child and attempted an intimidation extortion scheme in order to profit by trying to get my family homeless. This out of GREED. Speaks volumes! 

One lesson for everyone else: ” Carefully choose your people and your sources!”

Below is an audio tape by David Mayo who talks about LRH developing the OT levels above OT VIII. This with Maoy’s words directly addresses your (Rathbun’s and Rinder’s) claims. David Mayo worked close to LRH and saw the upper levels, so I would say that Maoy’s words are first hand knowledge. You both inclusive ( Rinder and Rathbun) were  NEVER close to LRH , so whatever you say would be at best “a hear say” . True enough you were both close to David Miscavige. In addition it seems that you both (Rinder and Rathbun) do not believe that you can evolve to treat others  with respect and kindness, so to engage in civilized dialogue without insults, I do not see the reason why are you are looking for the advanced levels, perhaps they are NOT for you.  Perhaps you want to call David Mayo a lair for saying that he saw OT IX and above  and you have directly labeled as “self importance”  the fact that Pierre has chosen to believe David Mayo’s first hand knowledge instead of your “hear say “rumors. Below is an audio record of  David Mayo’s own words:LRH continue researching the levels above that and eventually completed through what’s called OT XI” What do you have to say about that ? There must be a real good reason why one (referring to Rathbun and Rinder) is willfully “blind” to the obvious and unwilling to engage in civilized conversation but instead resorts in one sided personal attacks! I was led to believe that real OTs are skillful in communication in which you both ( Rathbun and Rinder) had proven  disappointing deficiency by expressing juvenile labels and engaging in undeserved personal attacks. Apparently the constructive communication ability is seriously lacking. ( My 2 cents! written By Catherine Ethier)

David Mayo says 3:15 – “LRH continue researching the levels above that and eventually completed through what’s called OT XI”

David Mayo was the senior spiritual technical person who L. Ron Hubbard initially entrusted to oversee the whole Scientology spiritual practice legacy in 1982, when the aging Hubbard realized he didn’t have many years left. Mayo’s title was the Senior Case Supervisor International. Mayo fell from grace just months after the April 1982 20 page despatch from Hubbard where Hubbard detailed to Mayo what Hubbard wanted. This talk discusses that 20 page despatch and other relavant events. This talk is one of several dozen talks recorded of David Mayo speaking in 1983 or 1984 at the center in Santa Barbara where David’s group of ex official Scientologists were based. Mayo’s Scientology splinter group probably formed the largest and most skilled schism group of ex official Scientologists in the history of the Scientology movement, and from these tapes of Mayo’s group’s informal weekly graduation ceremonies, it can be heard that his schism group’s offered services were almost the same services official Scientology delivers, with just different names. Mayo’s group operated within a milder atmosphere, minus the harsher atmosphere of official Scientology. Mayo’s Santa Barbara group was hit with suits and infiltration by official Scientologists and the Mayo group fell apart within a few years. But while it was operating, Mayo’s group constituded the largest schism group in the Scientology movement’s 60 or so years of history so far.
– Chuck Beatty, ex Scientology (Sea Org) staffer 1975-2003

Other sources about the upper OT Levels you can find here:

https://pierreethier.wordpress.com/ot-viii-and-beyond/

 In response foul language at

“Curiosus | January 19, 2013 at 10:49 am | Reply

According to Pierre Ethier, Hubbard actually developed OT 9 to 15 aboard the Apollo. Class XII auditors have been shown these materials. The Ls are fragments of these levels.

Could another class XII confirm?
martyrathbun09 ( Marty Rathbun) | January 19, 2013 at 1:29 pm | Reply

Bull.
mrinder ( Mark Rinder) | January 19, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Reply

Pierre seems to have a self-importance button about having a hidden data line. Being a “Class XII” doesnt make you an authority any more than being an “OT VIII” does, or for that matter a Patron Meritorious with knobs on.

Its been 27 years since LRH’s passing. IF there really were OT levels beyond OT VIII they would have been released by now…. You can only “go on hoping” for so long before you have to conclude that whatever stories you may have heard just are not true.

There are people who post on this blog (RussW and DanK) who worked in RTRC — the technical compilation unit responsible for taking all the notes and ideas that LRH had and turning them into issued format. They have a much higher likelihood of knowing about the supposed “further OT levels” than Pierre or anyone else.

Sooner or later you just have to confront reality. They don’t exist. It’s an empirical FACT. Rumor, stories, hearsay, hidden data, wishful thinking — none of them create reality. And the reality is, there are no OT levels above OT VIII. If they did exist, Miscavige would have issued them LONG before now to keep sucking the bucks out of the biggest cash cows….

Of course, you can pretend they DO exist and are just hidden from view somewhere, waiting for the appropriate time for release. But confronting the physical universe reality — they do not exist. Nobody can show them to you. They are like the Abominable Snowman. Some people will just keep believing it exists, I guess forever. And there isn’t really much you can do about it as it’s pretty hard to prove something DOESNT exist because it COULD be somewhere out of sight. But if nobody sees it for 25 years or 50 years or 100 years — it’s a pretty safe bet that it doesnt exist.

Wake up and smell the coffee…”

——

Quote: “Sometime people around you won’t understand your journey. They do not need to. It is not for them!”

Perhaps the OT journey is not for you!

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Suppressive Groups

Pierre_Ethier-Scientology-Class-XII-Auditor

WHO OR WHAT IS A SUPPRESSIVE GROUP?

ARE SPLINTER OR DIVERGENT GROUPS TRULY SUPPRESSIVE?

DEFINITION

L. Ron Hubbard originally defined the concept of Suppressive Groups in a Policy Letter dated 29 June 1968 (Enrollment in Suppressive Groups).

He stated “SUPPRESSIVE GROUPS, are defined as those which seek to destroy Scientology or which specialize in injuring or killing persons or damaging their cases or which advocate the suppression of mankind”.

However, in actual practice, the Church of Scientology (and Hubbard himself for that matter), has branded as Suppressives anyone who started a splinter or divergent group.

THE TRUTH:

WHAT TRULY CAUSES A GROUP TO BE BRANDED SUPPRESSIVE

 

By actual record, the Church of Scientology declares as Suppressive:

1- Any splinter group, whatever were their motives or activities.

2- Any whistleblower or group denouncing illegal acts performed or ordered by the Church of Scientology or any of its principals.

3- Anyone refusing to comply with orders issued by the Church Elite, no matter how much these may contravene approved policy or the published aims of Scientology.

4- Anyone found to be applying Scientology, or a derivative of it without the official approval or without the paying of tithes to the Church of Scientology. Contrarily to any mainstream Church, unqualified and untrained people will make the assessment of such activities and uniformly find them to be bad and harmful without any real investigation or competence to do so..

5- Any organization whose principals are known by the Church of Scientology to be former members and that teaches anything of a mental, Spiritual or Religious nature, even when it has no real connection with Scientology nor seeks to compete with it.

6- Any group or Association that has copied ideas found in Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard writings and seek to apply them, without the official approval of the Church of Scientology and the payment of large amounts of royalties. This especially applies to any new Churches created in accordance with the laws of the land.

7- Any group of  individuals that seeks to challenge the activities of the Church of Scientology or its leaders, even when invoking the writings of L. Ron Hubbard and the original materials written by Hubbard in the 1950s, which the current Church of Scientology is very fond of calling scriptures.

A exhaustive and impartial analysis of top 50 splinter or dissenting group from the Church of Scientology reveals the following facts:

THE FACTS:

THE TRUE ATTRIBUTES OF SPLINTER OR DIVERGENT GROUPS

 

1- Each and every Splinter/Divergent group purported and sought to promote the ideas contained in Scientology and consistent with its philosophy. This includes the entirety of what is labeled as “FREEZONE” or Independent Field. Therefore far from suppressing Scientology, they uniformly tried to promote it. FACT: Splinter/Divergent Groups do not seek to suppress Scientology.

2- People who have claimed that a splinter Group or FREEZONE/Independent caused someone’s actual injury or Death are very few in number (less than 3%) and every instance dates from the 1990s or the 21st Century as a small clique of particularly unethical, poorly trained and ignorant individuals started to rule or influence the key factions of the Freezone/Independent Field . The majority of the assertions of actual harm or death in the Freezone/Independent Field are anonymously made and easily traceable to the Church of Scientology or its agents. Since the Church of Scientology is among the most DEAD-AGENTED organization on the planet (except in the blind eyes of its fanatical promoters and OSA agents/collaborators), the validity of those claims is very easy to dispute.

On the other hand, the number of people documented with claims that the Church of Scientology has caused injury or contributed directly to the death of people is in the high Hundreds, or perhaps in the thousands. All one has to do is use the Internet Search Engine or visit the detailed files contained thousands of different accounts, testimonies and News media stories in the Internet web sites that are dedicated to the denunciation of abuses by the Church of Scientology.

1001- TH WAY TO DIE

A statistical analysis and study of OTs remaining faithful to the Church reveal a truly scary trend: Life expectancy for them is a mere 57 years of age: that is 20 to 25 years below the national average for all but the poorest and under-developped countries on Earth. Active membership and participation in the Church of Scientology current activities ought to be labeled: “the 1001th way to die“.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1000_Ways_to_Die

Therefore, even giving reports exclusively written for the benefit of the Church of Scientology credibility, the ratio of people allegedly injured or killed by the Church of Scientology outnumbers the Splinter Groups/Freezone/Independents by over 300 to 1.

FACT: None of the Splinter/Divergent Groups has ever specialized in injuring or Killing persons.

3- As far as advocating the Suppression of Mankind, there is no evidence that any of the 500 groups listed on any list of Splinter or Divergent groups has ever advocated or encouraged such acts. On the other hand, the Church of Scientology has regularily promoted ideas described in the “ten stages of genocide” and frequently advocated that people be deprived or liberty or their Human rights should they happen to be blacklisted for whatever reason.

FACT: None of the Splinter/Divergent Groups has ever advocated the Suppression of Mankind.

DO FREEZONE/INDEPENDENTS GROUPS TRULY HARM CASES?

4- While the results achieved by Splinter groups and Freezone factions tend to vary according to ideas and quality in their application, only a small handful of Independent practitioners (less than 5% – none of them being member of an organized group) has shown that they may be possibly labeled as “harmful”. Even that claim is in dispute.

The matter of damaging people’s cases is largely a subjective one.

What of the auditor who falsely validates the hallucinatory claims of a pc to please him/her? Is he truly damaging the case of the person?

What of the auditor who validates the pc who is convinced that he audits remotely and telepathically the world leaders, including President Obama?

Or how about the one who believes he/she gets daily instructions from the spiritual plane where LRH gives them daily advice on where to purchase anything from picnic foam plates to a large Plasma TV?

What of people attesting to OT8, OT48 or even  OT 1008?

Most of these people claim to be happy, though many of their peers tend to view them as delusional.

For each person pointing them up as “damaged cases”, there will be those who promote them as exemplary cases.

Merely making people happy with their state of case is a questionable criteria. A number of cases, by actual record, incompetently audited people can turn on some form of Psychosis and Deep Hatred after having been audited as a victim, when they were actually a chronic aggressor and abuser of the rights of others. If one was to audit an “Hitler type” personality, the latter may enjoy his newly gained abilities as a wonderful tool for more effectively committing genocide or  spread his hatred against those he feel should be destroyed.

PREVIOUSLY DAMAGED CASES

Lastly, of supreme, but often neglected importance is whether the person’s case was already damaged by the Church of Scientology or its predecessors in the field of Mental and Spiritual practices.

In the vast majority of cases, it is simply impossible to ascertain. The Church of Scientology, typically blames its failed cases on Psychiatry and often invents newly discovered psychiatry related links to rationalize even the most justified of attacks on them.

Every case that has openly testified against a Freezone or Independent auditor for being abused, misaudited or otherwise mishandled, had done the exact same thing toward the Church of Scientology a number of years earlier.

Policies on Sources of Troubles written by L. Ron Hubbard describes responsible-for-condition cases as those insisting things such as some auditor or thing being “wholly responsible for the terrible condition I am in.” the same policy states that a “review of these cases show that they were in the same or worse condition long before auditing… and that their antagonism extends to anyone who seeks to help them”.

FACT: None of the Splinter/Divergent Groups has ever specialized in Damaging Cases. Damaged cases are nearly always attributable to many causes and the evidence supports that the Church of Scientology does far more toward Damaging people’s cases than any Splinter/Divergent group ever has.

HOW TO DETERMINE IF A PRACTICE IS DAMAGING TO A CASE

The correct method of determining if someone’s case has been harmed by a practice is to confine oneself to the actions of the person (something that can be impartially examined) rather than the person feelings, beliefs or alleged character (something largely subjective)

The following questions should be examined and answered based on honest and thorough examination, while brushing away any and all bias and rumors:

1- Is the individual, according to the world at large, as opposed  to groups he/she is associated with (due to the likelihood of mutual out-rudiments) becoming a better person? By better person is meant someone who help others and who behave in accordance to a Moral Code such as the one written in the Way to Happiness. Because delusional or unethical individuals tend to PR themselves an actual thorough and independent examination of their activities is required.

2- Is the person more successful along their dynamics? (especially the first three)

3- What is the level of Communication of the person? Is it highly destructive toward selected individuals or are they focusing on constructive activities

4- Is the person a PR artist?

5- Are the friends or associates of the individual people of Good-Will, (even if they may have made mistakes), or people actually involved in, actually PR artists and/or con men due to their destructive activities? Who are their friends? Who are their enemies?

6- Are they hypocritically posing as “Free Independent” while covertly acting as Informant for the Church of Scientology (the one organization who has publicly vowed at trying to destroy all Independent Scientologist and practitioners). Are their enemies the same as the Church of Scientology?

LAW OF EXCLUDED MIDDLE

“THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND”

 

Logic, in spite of the existence of the Data Series, is something largely unknown to Scientologists. The data Series written by L. Ron Hubbard were meant to complement the fundamentals of LOGIC. But most Scientologist (both within the Church and without) view it as a replacement, therefore they tend to act in a completely illogical manner.

Normal and ethical people often state that “The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend”.

Many people who have been indoctrinated by some of the false ideas taught within the Church of Scientology tend to stick to those false ideas long after they have left or even publicly disavowed any beliefs in that organization or even its philosophy and original ideas.

It is a typically action by the same kind of people to willy-nilly provide assistance to the Church of Scientology when it seeks to malign its enemies, by providing all manner of Black PR and lies against their common enemies.

In most cases, the providing of Black PR against their perceived or imaginary enemies, in forums carefully chosen because OSA and Church agents are known to frequent them is meticulously calculated to harm its target by teh typical weapons of choice of the coward: Lies, Blackmail and defamation.

The result, uncomforted by those who have a low ability to confront Evil or Reality, is that the individuals publicly attacking the Church of Scientology Enemies by using defamation, Blackmail and lies, have become de facto collaborators of the Church of Scientology and are treated as informants and reliable sources by that organization.

The net result is to weaken the target of their hatred (often an individual with limited resources or time to defend himself) and  strengthen the Church of Scientology (an organization documented to allocate unlimited resources toward the suppression of its enemies).

The only possible conclusion is that the individuals claiming to be enemies of the Church, yet actively aid the Church in its attacks of its enemies are either incredibly stupid, hypocritical or an unholy mixture of both.

Many of the EX-Scientologist boards starting with their owners and moderators act that way. The same goes with a number of Freezone/Independent Boards, in particular those controlled by the self appointed Freezone PRs, who know very well their board is infested by OSA agents and operatives, though they profess otherwise.

The only reason a board like ESMB has been allowed to continue to exist, in spite of it numerous violations of the law, and the vast resources and connections of the Church of Scientology (and its ability to get it shut it down any day it chooses to), is that it is viewed by OSA as an invaluable tool to malign its enemies and the eagerness of those who portray themselves as Victims of Scientology to do its own dirty work. And they do it for free!

Such Church allies can be created by incompetent or reckless Freezone/Independent auditors when they bypass the case of their pc and allow them to remain stuck in earlier bad and/or traumatic experiences at the hands of the Church of Scientology, yet attempt to audit them on Upper Levels or Rundowns. The resulting Blind fury or Hatred is typically targeted at anyone who may point out, especially correctly, the technical shortcomings of their auditor (the one largely responsible for restimulating the person).

THE LIST OF ENEMIES AND SUPPRESSIVE PERSONS/GROUPS

SOED Flag ED 2830RB published on the 25 July 1992 is the last list of Suppressives published by the Church of Scientology. It proved to be such an embarrassment when it was leaked on the Internet, that the Church amended its policy of updating it and has since kept its ever-growing list of Declared Suppressive Persons, a secret.

All one has to do is look at the historical records of the history and development of Scientology or the names of LRH former close associates and confidantes to recognize a veritable “Who is Who” of the History of Scientology in that issue alone.

The Church of Scientology use blind zealots, fanatics and extremists such as those dedicating themselves at making Hatred web pages on imaginary enemies of the Church of Scientology, those stalking defectors to harass them and those who believe that spying on people of good-will to satisfy the pernicious agenda of OSA. The common denominator of all these people is a deep fear of the light of Truth and the exposing of their own crimes, lies and atrocities. That terror dominates their should so much that they become unable to recognize as an OUTPOINT (or illogic) the simple fact that anyone who sees 90% of one their former associates or comrades has all the attributes Paranoia. Paranoia is a condition largely created by having committed earlier a large number of harmful acts.

To summarize:

Labelling Splinter or Divergent Groups as Suppressive is based on lies and used as an expedient to rationalize the blatant disregard by the Church of Scientology for people rights to practice their own religion as they see fit or express their opinion.

True Suppressive Groups obviously do exist: The Nazis, Organized Crime, Al-Qaeda are a few of them, but they are never listed by the Church of Scientology in the lists of Enemies of Mankind, while their own defectors always are.

Declaring Splinter or Divergent groups as Suppressives is an entirely political tool whose main aim is to stamp out competition. Further it attempts to  maintain what is advertised as “the only road to Spiritual Freedom” and Spiritual redemption for Man as a Monopoly in the hands of a self-appointed Elite. That latter point is Ethically as reprehensible as can be, since its only possible result should it come to fruition is the Enslavement of Mankind.

Observation of the actual actions done by that Elite clearly indicates that the personal Aims of the Individuals that control that Elite have nothing to do with the purported Aims of Scientology nor its published Credo. On the contrary the aims of the Elite have mainly to do with the accumulation of wealth in the most expedient possible way (typically through the secret use of Slave labour, Sweat Shops and Intimidation) and in satisfying an insatiable thirst for Power over the souls that the Church of Scientology still controls.

The way to minimize the formation of Splinter Group is for the organization to remain open to the fruits of observation and to suggestions and to acknowledge people. Most Splinter Groups were created as a result of an unhandled upset or ARCX (Disagreement, Injustice, Invalidation). By keeping quality controls high and verifying that the proper standards and protocols are adhered to, results automatically follow and the demand for switching to wild unproven ideas will remain to a minimum. To utterly prevent the formation of Splinter or Divergent groups is simply impossible without adopting totalitarian measures and keeping a thought a police active.

If one is to be in the business of helping people achieve higher levels of self-determinism, one need to accept that fact. The Church of Scientology has become akin to a 1984 type Orwellian nightmare because it refused to understand that simple principle.

Pierre Ethier