Short response to Marty Rathbun and Mark Rinder or are you both (Rathbun and Rinder) calling David Mayo a liar?- written by Catherine Ethier (Re: OT VIII and above)

Good morning Gentleman,

I am not going to engage myself with personal insults and profanities as you do. Your own past deeds speak for themselves. I also mean no disrespect! What I want to address is your offensive language showing poor taste and the personal attacks in the exert below. We also wish NO part of your rude exchanges!

I also want to make a side mention about the quality of the influencing crowd spreading rumors  and “opinions”  about Pierre on your blogs – one is a “FreeZoner” who Mark Rathbun is often praising on his blog as a close friend and who funnels money to him. The very same individual has made a considerable attempt to take the roof over the head of my disabled teenage child and attempted an intimidation extortion scheme in order to profit by trying to get my family homeless. This out of GREED. Speaks volumes! 

One lesson for everyone else: ” Carefully choose your people and your sources!”

Below is an audio tape by David Mayo who talks about LRH developing the OT levels above OT VIII. This with Maoy’s words directly addresses your (Rathbun’s and Rinder’s) claims. David Mayo worked close to LRH and saw the upper levels, so I would say that Maoy’s words are first hand knowledge. You both inclusive ( Rinder and Rathbun) were  NEVER close to LRH , so whatever you say would be at best “a hear say” . True enough you were both close to David Miscavige. In addition it seems that you both (Rinder and Rathbun) do not believe that you can evolve to treat others  with respect and kindness, so to engage in civilized dialogue without insults, I do not see the reason why are you are looking for the advanced levels, perhaps they are NOT for you.  Perhaps you want to call David Mayo a lair for saying that he saw OT IX and above  and you have directly labeled as “self importance”  the fact that Pierre has chosen to believe David Mayo’s first hand knowledge instead of your “hear say “rumors. Below is an audio record of  David Mayo’s own words:LRH continue researching the levels above that and eventually completed through what’s called OT XI” What do you have to say about that ? There must be a real good reason why one (referring to Rathbun and Rinder) is willfully “blind” to the obvious and unwilling to engage in civilized conversation but instead resorts in one sided personal attacks! I was led to believe that real OTs are skillful in communication in which you both ( Rathbun and Rinder) had proven  disappointing deficiency by expressing juvenile labels and engaging in undeserved personal attacks. Apparently the constructive communication ability is seriously lacking. ( My 2 cents! written By Catherine Ethier)

David Mayo says 3:15 – “LRH continue researching the levels above that and eventually completed through what’s called OT XI”

David Mayo was the senior spiritual technical person who L. Ron Hubbard initially entrusted to oversee the whole Scientology spiritual practice legacy in 1982, when the aging Hubbard realized he didn’t have many years left. Mayo’s title was the Senior Case Supervisor International. Mayo fell from grace just months after the April 1982 20 page despatch from Hubbard where Hubbard detailed to Mayo what Hubbard wanted. This talk discusses that 20 page despatch and other relavant events. This talk is one of several dozen talks recorded of David Mayo speaking in 1983 or 1984 at the center in Santa Barbara where David’s group of ex official Scientologists were based. Mayo’s Scientology splinter group probably formed the largest and most skilled schism group of ex official Scientologists in the history of the Scientology movement, and from these tapes of Mayo’s group’s informal weekly graduation ceremonies, it can be heard that his schism group’s offered services were almost the same services official Scientology delivers, with just different names. Mayo’s group operated within a milder atmosphere, minus the harsher atmosphere of official Scientology. Mayo’s Santa Barbara group was hit with suits and infiltration by official Scientologists and the Mayo group fell apart within a few years. But while it was operating, Mayo’s group constituded the largest schism group in the Scientology movement’s 60 or so years of history so far.
– Chuck Beatty, ex Scientology (Sea Org) staffer 1975-2003

Other sources about the upper OT Levels you can find here:

 In response foul language at

“Curiosus | January 19, 2013 at 10:49 am | Reply

According to Pierre Ethier, Hubbard actually developed OT 9 to 15 aboard the Apollo. Class XII auditors have been shown these materials. The Ls are fragments of these levels.

Could another class XII confirm?
martyrathbun09 ( Marty Rathbun) | January 19, 2013 at 1:29 pm | Reply

mrinder ( Mark Rinder) | January 19, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Reply

Pierre seems to have a self-importance button about having a hidden data line. Being a “Class XII” doesnt make you an authority any more than being an “OT VIII” does, or for that matter a Patron Meritorious with knobs on.

Its been 27 years since LRH’s passing. IF there really were OT levels beyond OT VIII they would have been released by now…. You can only “go on hoping” for so long before you have to conclude that whatever stories you may have heard just are not true.

There are people who post on this blog (RussW and DanK) who worked in RTRC — the technical compilation unit responsible for taking all the notes and ideas that LRH had and turning them into issued format. They have a much higher likelihood of knowing about the supposed “further OT levels” than Pierre or anyone else.

Sooner or later you just have to confront reality. They don’t exist. It’s an empirical FACT. Rumor, stories, hearsay, hidden data, wishful thinking — none of them create reality. And the reality is, there are no OT levels above OT VIII. If they did exist, Miscavige would have issued them LONG before now to keep sucking the bucks out of the biggest cash cows….

Of course, you can pretend they DO exist and are just hidden from view somewhere, waiting for the appropriate time for release. But confronting the physical universe reality — they do not exist. Nobody can show them to you. They are like the Abominable Snowman. Some people will just keep believing it exists, I guess forever. And there isn’t really much you can do about it as it’s pretty hard to prove something DOESNT exist because it COULD be somewhere out of sight. But if nobody sees it for 25 years or 50 years or 100 years — it’s a pretty safe bet that it doesnt exist.

Wake up and smell the coffee…”


Quote: “Sometime people around you won’t understand your journey. They do not need to. It is not for them!”

Perhaps the OT journey is not for you!