OTVIII and Beyond

LRH Legacy

 OT VIII and beyond what lies ahead of us???

While all evidence points to the fact that no new OT Level will be released by the Church in our lifetimes, for those lucky enough to have “strayed” away from the yoke of that Institution, the bridge needs not dead-end at OT VIII.

Throughout the years, there have been many speculations as to what OT VIII and beyond were about. A number of uninformed individual even started to broadcast, quite erroneously that LRH had never even researched or written those. The same people are also content to tell that the world that the “last technical lecture from LRH dates from 1972”, utterly oblivious of the fact that in late 1975, LRH gave a series of 22 lectures on the Flag Only “Special Rundown” (later to be called “New Vitality Rundown” or NVRD, to a group of over 40 Tech People.

In 1977, in broadly released issues LRH announced that at least 15 new Levels were fully researched and merely awaiting final write-up. Also the Class X, XI and XII materials make repeated and specific references to these Rundowns coming from “research on OT VIII-XV”.

I have also confirmed from private discussions with a number of individuals, some of which I have known for decades, and whom I consider to be honest and reliable that they even saw the materials themselves.


There is no such thing as OLD and NEW OT Levels, except within RTC‘s feverish mind (and therefore those of its followers). Except for “old OT I” (originally developed in 1966 and found in 1967 by LRH to be a dead-end), there has not been, since 1967 any “OLD OT Levels”.

Its core issues written up in 1969, LRH found OT VIII to be “only for a High level Thetan“, and the gradient simply too steep for most people, even a Full OT 7 completion. It took nearly a decade for tech to be developed to address those points.

Finally in 1978, LRH triumphantly announced that NOTS was the answer and the prerequisite for OT VIII. NOTS was found to be a far longer rundown than originally expected. Unfortunately over the next few years, RTC and the CSI (Church of Scientology International) re-wrote the bridge solely for “Marketing” and “Income Making Purposes” and not for “technical Reasons”. NOTS, became “New OT V”. The Solo NOTS Course (NOT an OT level, by any standard), became “New OT VI”, and Solo NOTS (essentially the continuation of NOTS auditing, but done Solo, became “New OT VII”. This was done, disregarding the obvious fact that by making “New Levels”, the previous ones of the same name automatically became “OLD”, in complete contrast to the Issues on technical Degrades. The issues on technical degrades are deemed so important by LRH, that he has ordered them to be at the beginning of every single course in Scientology. There is also no issue whatsoever or even order from LRH advising to market NOTS and Solo NOTS as “New OT V-VII” and to drop the previous line-up. This was a “bright idea” entirely dreamed up by the “New Management”. To compound the felony, the entirety of the NOTS materials was purposely NEVER fully released by the Church to its own auditors or Public!

The original issues of NOTS date from 1978-9. Additions were made in 1982, more in 1984. In 1991, several dozens pages of actual original LRH NOTS and LRH Solo NOTS materials was released as “New NOTS Rundowns”. Faithful to its insatiable greed, the Church promptly found new names to market them such as “The Held-Down Seven Rundown”, or the NOTS Stability Rundowns”. Had the Church been more honest, they would have called them “The previously withheld NOTS rundowns”. In the same vein in 1996 and 1998 “Newly found” (or rather withheld” materials) were announced, as a method of generating interest in an ever increasing bored public. Scores of “Newly found LRH Tech” still awaits Flag public and their eventually release is planned over the next several decades.

Why would someone do such a thing? More crass than the mere Evil Intent to Harm others because of some fancied threat, (the true genus of the Suppressive), Money and Greed are the actual motives. By releasing the entirety of NOTS and OT VIII, Flag is in great Danger of forever loosing its public, because they have no Intention of releasing OT IX anytime soon. The publicly admitted goal of the Church is that when every Organization (as of the 1990s) is the size of “Old St-Hill”, OT IX will be released. Considering that the average Organization has substantially lower statistics than a decade ago and that some have even permanently closed their doors, that goal is in no danger of being attained in the foreseeable future. By keeping a trickle of LRH Tech coming in, the Church feels it can maintain its rein over all of its public. Better yet, by releasing “New Vital Tech” the Church can even justify recycling its OT VIII public through a second run of NOTS and then OT VIII (a cycle they may feel justified in repeating over and over if the number of its public continues at its current stagnant level). Add an infinite variation of Sec-Checks and False Purpose Rundowns done to address any fancied wrongs the individual may have ever committed this lifetime, and you now obtain a bottomless Technical Estimate, capable of bankrupting even the wealthiest of its public. As an added bonus, the latest tech Individual to have fallen out of favor will become the perfect scapegoat for having been “discovered to have withheld those materials”, when new materials are to be released.


OT VIII was originally written up in 1969. Around 1983, LRH wrote the final piece of that Rundown, a final step intended to polish up and stabilize the results.

Either deliberately, or perhaps, more accurately, as a direct result of the unawareness brought about by the burden of heavy overts, the individuals responsible for compiling OT VIII, for its 1989 release aboard the Freewinds, entirely disregarded the original OT VIII materials and merely released the “final piece” as if it were the entire Rundown. The rest is History. In spite of the carefully controlled hype, the original release of OT VIII went like a lead balloon. Within just three months, well over 10% of its original public completions were dropping off like flies either dead or seriously ill, or victim of an accident or a crime. Many of the “younger public” were either tepid about the results or per actual session records, simply incapable of running the level with any substance or reality. The actual technical reason is actually not hard to imagine. Beside the fact that they were missing the majority of the rundown, younger public had never done the Original OT VII. The Original OT VII is a beautiful Level that has a lot to do with the ability to project one’s Intention across. OT VIII was originally developed assuming everyone would have done OT VII prior to it.


LRH says that OT VIII handles the subject of Amnesia on the Whole Track. By addressing the failure of the thetan to maintain his pan determined Viewpoint and remain unaffected by unpleasant experiences, one can handle the basic reason why a thetan start to go down the effect scale from total Awareness toward oblivion. A Rehabilitation of one’s ability to view the Whole Track, and addressing the factors that predisposed one to have a Reactive Mind in the first place are the type of abilities one should expect at this level, aptly called “Truth revealed”.


OT IX (Orders of Magnitude) was originally forgotten by both RTC and the Church of Spiritual technology in 1982 when legally registering them to their names and erroneously named Character (OT X). For someone familiar with that level, the Technical reason for it is extremely clear. OT IX (Orders of Magnitude) intensely deals with the Universe of Others. It requires no special knowledge to realize that a small elitist clique devout on perverting a valuable subject for its selfish gain and that an organization (The Church of Spiritual technology), whose board of Directors is exclusively composed by people practicing a profession that is dedicated at manipulating the truth to satisfy private interests (lawyers) are incapable of any true awareness of the Universe of Others.

At OT IX one should expect a whole new level of Interaction with others, especially at the OT ability level. Things like telepathy and “reading minds” are closely associated with this level. Contrarily to the lower end of the Bridge, on each of those Upper Levels, the individual is expected to produce “tangible” and measurable results, nor mere subjective gain. After all we are dealing with factual OT abilities here, not merely “feeling better”.

Whereas, the lower end of the bridge is almost exclusively dealing with “negative Gain”, i.e. getting rid of what is wrong with one self, the Upper OT Levels deal almost exclusively with “Positive Gain”, i.e. Gaining Abilities and rehabilitating a being. Dianetics, OT III, NOTS are example of Negative Gains. The Original OT IV-VII, OT IX and beyond are examples of Positive Gain


OT X, Character, addresses the subject of Postulates. On this Level one confronts why some, in spite of an apparent High level of OT still revel in Evil and why others remain good. OT X is meant to rehabilitate one’s fundamental purpose and blow all the reasons one would ever become PTS in the first place. The result is a very fortified thetan with an enormously increased ability to make his own postulates stick. This level explains the reason why “old curses” sometimes work, and provide the ability to blow them.


Operating is a true OT Level. This is a Level the Church, who is now effectively under the Control of the US Government, is and should be terrified of. This level deals with Remote Viewing. Remote Viewing is the worst possible commodity for the corrupt individual or Organization. It is not that a decadent Organization is so much terrified at the idea of its secrets being known, but rather its elitist clique goes into a complete frenzy at the thought that its dirty backroom deals, its bribes and its secretly committing the very same acts they routinely expose in others, could become common knowledge.


At this Level, one starts to have a new understanding and viewpoint of the Physical Universe and its components: Matter, Energy, Space and Time. New notions about time are part of this level. One of the things discovered on this level is that the flow of Time is not a constant and that time actually is flowing faster today than on the early track. This level revolutionizes most people’s understanding about Physics. A whole new concept about the Future opens up.


The Church does not name this Level. Its name is “Knowledge”


The Church does not name this Level. Its name is “Ability”


The Church does not name this Level. Its name is “Freedom”


From all evidences, neither the Church, nor the Government is interested in making people truly OT.

A true OT cannot be fully controlled against his will. He will not become the adverse effect of an individual or a group.

A true OT automatically supports what is good and tries to prevent what is Evil.

A true OT perceives the ulterior motives and hidden agendas of others.

Read the “OT Wins” from Advance magazines from the 1970s and compare them to “OT Wins” in recent Church Publications such as Freewinds or “Source”.

The former talks about remotely causing effects, bona-fide miracles, exterior phenomena and actually exercising one’s OT skills.

The later merely talks about “Feeling great”, “Handling one’s difficulties” and “Getting rid of undesirable traits”.

In other words, the Church’s OT Wins have now degraded themselves to the level of those achievable on Lower grades.

If you don’t believe it, pick up a recent copy of the Freewinds magazine and compare it to an early Advance Mag.

Pierre Ethier

Class XII

Related links: About OT Levels 

Starting OT IX

Starting OT IX has been awesome. Already I find myself more in control of my environment and find that it is not nearly as threatening as I had supposed. I have come to realize that there were things about peoples character or their universe that I could be responsible for and change or not change as I decided. By looking for what I disagreed with and then discovering that I could accept it, I found that my understanding of others increased considerably and, consequently, my ARC for them.

Just a few days ago a dear friend of mine called to say that she had pneumonia. She wanted to know if I could help. I took a look at her body and found a problem in each lung. These problems seemed to be at odds with each other. The turbulence created was causing her illness. By thoroughly viewing the cause of the problem, it vanished. The next day she reported that she was out of bed and feeling so much better. A couple days later she was over the sickness.

I consider myself fortunate to have Pierre as my auditor and C/S. The auditing is without doubt far superior than any other I’ve received. The supervision has allowed my own auditing to flow without stops and always on track.

Signed: JB

(Published with JB’s written permission)

Success on OT IX

On OT IX, I greatly increased my awareness of myself and my perception of the universe of others, including people, animals, plants, and disembodied thetans. I find that I can easily perceive simultaneously a room full of people, each as individuals, as well as their collective mind. The universes of minds are an order of magnitude beyond what my attention was focused on before doing this level.

(published with H.J.’s written permission)

LRH Death Event : Pat Broeker

“There is ONLY ONE source!” is often forgotten by the Church Of Scientology and the Independent Practitioners

The official LRH Death Announcement event took place at the Flag Land Base in February 1986. The event was hosted by David Miscavige, Pat and Annie Broeker and the Church Attorney Earl Cooley.

Pat Broeker said he and his wife Annie Broeker were with LRH the last days up until his death. Pat said he was assisting LRH with his research into the upper OT levels. Pat Broeker also said that LRH left completed OT levels up to OT XV and beyond. Pat was a Loyal Officer in LRH’s absence.


Note: OT Levels

Some information about the OT levels on Marty Rathbun’s  is based on assumptions that are not supported by facts. As usual, fabrications , misinformations and rumors tend to spread like wildfire. Marty accurately established that there was no trace of the upper OT LEVELS where L. Ron Hubbard lived (and died). His further conclusions however were based on assumptions that do not naturally flow out of his established facts. He went on to deduct that LRH WAS A CONTINUOUS LIAR and never made them. FACT: L. RON HUBBARD developed the OT LEVELS above OT VIII in the 1970s on the Apollo …NOT IN THE 1980s. It is a fact that the Class XIIs saw them, there were other witnesses. The Ls are based on OT VIII-XV. There is even a PUBLISHED OT VIII bulletin from 1969 and a dozen places where LRH gives data coming from OT VIII. This is another aberrated by-product of Scientology culture:”If it wasn’t seen by oneself it doesn’t exist”. This is Ostrich thinking and Galileo (re: “The Earth”), Einstein ( re:”Theory of relativity” ) had proven this approach to the nature of things to be wrong! . Those who are so quick at jumping at conclusions and whose perceptions are so low they can’t see illogic where it exist, are nowhere near ready for the upper OT LEVELS anyway, so why are they apparently so deeply concerned? (Related reference)

Below are few references by L. Ron Hubbard’s in regard to the upper OT levels.

HCOB 30 Jul 73 “Scientology, Current State of the Subject and Materials”

“There are perhaps 15 levels above OT VII fully developed but existing only in unissued note form, pending more people’s full attainment of OT VI & VII.” L. Ron Hubbard

HCOB 24 Jan 77 “Tech Correction Round-Up”

 “OT VIII has been in existence all those several years, and to it has been added a very large number of OT grades. None of them have been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence.” L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard ED 301 Int’, 17 Dec 78 “Ron’s Journal 30, 1978—The Year of Lightning Fast New Tech”

“UPPER LEVELS. There are other OT levels above VIII but these will be released from time to time when people are ready for them. We’re already higher than Man has ever been and it can get quite stratospheric.” L. Ron Hubbard

FES Checklist (FES: Folder Error Summary), used by Case Supervisors use to program cases. This checklist is Attachment 1 to HCOB 29 January 1981RA, Auditor Admin Series 24RB “FES Checklists and Summary”.

Hubbard, L. (1981, 29 January) FES Checklists and Summary, Attachment 1. Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology (1991 ed., Vol. S1, pp. 511-31). Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.


NEW OT VIII (Truth Revealed)_________________

 NEW OT IX (Orders of Magnitude)_________________

 NEW OT X (Character)_________________

 NEW OT XI (Operating)_________________

 NEW OT XII (Future)_________________

 NEW OT XIII_________________

NEW OT XIV_________________

 NEW OT XV_________________


M. Rathbun interview:

“Well, Pat was an interesting fish because Miscavige, ah, all he was concerned about was getting materials that Hubbard had written about the upper levels, Hubbard’s PC folders, notes that he had done that Broeker alluded to that were essential to compiling certain Scientology levels that hadn’t been released, and this sort of thing. Broeker had been, been hiding these, using them as a last defense to prevent Miscavige from wiping him out from having any authority or influence in the Church. This was all part of his power push against Broeker. And once, we had, we had this huge confrontation where I had brought in a number of PIs, security guys, you know, hired guns, literally, to come in so Miscavige could have a direct confrontation with Broeker. It was me, Wilhere, Starkey, all of his henchmen. All of Miscavige’s henchmen came in and had his con- and Miscavige had his confrontation with Broeker.

And finally got Annie. Annie finally broke under the pressure and told Dave where Pat was storing the materials, at a storage space.

Well once that, once the materials were gotten, Broeker had no more cards to play. And he basically said, “Screw it, I’m out of here. I’m leaving.”

Source: Link

David Mayo says 3:15 – “LRH continue researching the levels above that and eventually completed through what’s called OT XI”

David Mayo was the senior spiritual technical person who L. Ron Hubbard initially entrusted to oversee the whole Scientology spiritual practice legacy in 1982, when the aging Hubbard realized he didn’t have many years left. Mayo’s title was the Senior Case Supervisor International. Mayo fell from grace just months after the April 1982 20 page despatch from Hubbard where Hubbard detailed to Mayo what Hubbard wanted. This talk discusses that 20 page despatch and other relavant events. This talk is one of several dozen talks recorded of David Mayo speaking in 1983 or 1984 at the center in Santa Barbara where David’s group of ex official Scientologists were based. Mayo’s Scientology splinter group probably formed the largest and most skilled schism group of ex official Scientologists in the history of the Scientology movement, and from these tapes of Mayo’s group’s informal weekly graduation ceremonies, it can be heard that his schism group’s offered services were almost the same services official Scientology delivers, with just different names. Mayo’s group operated within a milder atmosphere, minus the harsher atmosphere of official Scientology. Mayo’s Santa Barbara group was hit with suits and infiltration by official Scientologists and the Mayo group fell apart within a few years. But while it was operating, Mayo’s group constituded the largest schism group in the Scientology movement’s 60 or so years of history so far.
– Chuck Beatty, ex Scientology (Sea Org) staffer 1975-2003

Tampa Bay Thimes about Pat Broeker

1994 Church of Scientology price list for services

2002 Church of Scientology price list for the Ls


This website has been designed to provide general educational information about the personal legacy and spiritual opinions of the respective authors and does not represent or imply the representation of products, services and financial information. The third party links have been obtained through internet search.


Below is a partial list of OT VIII’s Completions based on records in Freewinds Magazine Issue # 1 to Issue # 89 (Dec 1989 to April 2012). The Church of Scientology offers only an  abbreviated version of OT VIII.

The Excel  view of the list is more user friendly


Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s